Multiple Spouses & Children in D7/D9 — Sequential vs Simultaneous, Abortion Indicators

Guru Bindu — Progressed Midpoint (Informal Discussion)

A student had been progressing sahamas. PVNR's reply:

• In the natal chart the problem is the rate. A point can be made to cover the zodiac in 10, 20, 30 or 50 years; each rate gives different results. "There are infinite options."
• So he tried it inside the annual Tithi Praveśa chart, where the rate is fixed: the point must cover the whole zodiac in that one year.
• Progressed sahamas, linear or not, gave him nothing interesting. Midpoints of planets did.

Guru Bindu

• The midpoint of the Moon's longitude and Rahu's longitude. "Moon is basically your mind."
• Traditional use: progress it in the natal chart by a fixed amount per year (3° is the most popular; 1° is also used). When it touches a planet or another important natal position, an event is triggered.

PVNR's Progression Within the Year

He tried two ways:

1. Linear — 360° spread evenly over the days of the year.
2. Non-linear, in Vimshottari proportion — because Moon and Rahu are about the mind, give weight to the nakshatra. The progressed Moon stays 7 years in Ashwini, 20 in Bharani, 6 in Krittika. Map 120 years to 360°: each nakshatra takes 3° of the year's motion per daśā year.
   • Ashwini = 7 × 3 = 21°; Bharani = 20 × 3 = 60°; and so on.
   • Inside a nakshatra the motion is again non-linear: the nakshatra is cut into 9 equal parts of longitude, and the time spent in each part follows the antardaśā lengths. Go one level deeper for more accuracy.

In practice: start a Vimshottari daśā from the special point instead of the Moon (he uses the tribhāgī option), see which daśā is running on the date, and count how much of it is over.

• His worked case: 3 antardaśās of the Krittika period over, and 1 pratyantardaśā of the 4th. He takes (3 + 1/9) ÷ 9 of the nakshatra, times 13°20', and adds that to the start of Krittika. (He first counts four antardaśās, then corrects himself to three; the arithmetic in the recording is not fully consistent.)

Results

• The year he stood first in an examination (result on the evening of 28 May): the progressed point touched his 5th lord Mars in the 5th house — competition, education.
• The year he left India: the point was exactly opposite his Saturn, 12th lord in the 12th, on the day he went abroad.

"This is hit or miss. You either get the exact day of the event or you don't get anything."

"When it works, it works 100%. When it doesn't work, you have to use something else."

• Other midpoints can be progressed the same way: lagna–Ketu, lagna–Saturn and so on. "Those I found to be consistent, but sahamas I haven't found to be consistent."
• "No single technique will give you 100% perfect prediction. You have to combine various things."
• This lives only in his own copy of the software; he has not given it an interface.

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Multiple Spouses — Counting in Navamsha and Saptamsha

What Prompted It

Last week's chart was confirmed by the native: a long, close first relationship did not become a marriage; the current one is recent.

• The first relationship is UL. The 2nd from UL was weak, so the first was not expected to last.
• The second relationship is the 8th from UL. That was strong.
• The 8th from there is the third, and so on.

A Serious Relationship Is a Marriage

• "Any serious relationship is like a marriage as far as we are concerned." A person may say he is unmarried; by the chart he is married.
• A student asks how long it must last. Theory says a year, but PVNR has seen shorter ones count. It needs commitment, not a number of months.
• Check the daśā. If the running periods have no link to the lord of UL or of the 2nd from UL, but do link to the 8th from UL, suspect this is the second relationship. Then ask. "Was there a serious relationship before?" is a clearer question than "Is this your first marriage?"

Sequential Relationships — Take the 8th

One relationship ended (divorce, death, or simply "we are done"), then another began.

• The even-numbered spouse always falls in the house of the same number: 2nd wife 2nd house, 4th wife 4th house, 6th wife 6th house, 8th wife 8th house.
• Say "8th from the 7th", not "7th from the 8th". The 8th shows what ends the first marriage or comes after its end.
• A relationship that ended and was later restarted with the same person gets a new count.

Simultaneous Relationships — Take the 6th

The earlier relationship is still alive when the next is added — kings with several wives, Draupadi with several husbands.

• "This is basically you are augmenting, you are increasing. This is not ending something and starting something."
• The 8th or 6th is always counted forward, whatever the sign.
• PVNR knows only the theory here: "I have not seen any practical charts to confirm this." It comes from tradition.

Tricky Cases

• Wives one and two together, one dies, a third comes: 6th or 8th? Probably 6th if a relationship is still running and one is being added. "Maybe 6, maybe 8, but not fully sure."
• For the straightforward cases — one spouse, or divorce after divorce — the rule works.
• Formulas that count wives by the number of planets in the 7th house "don't work".
• Charts in the US give plenty of material to test this. The charts he saw in India were one wife and two or three children.

In Navamsha

• The same houses: 7th for the first spouse, 2nd for the second, 9th for the third, 4th for the fourth. Read each spouse from that house.

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Children from Multiple Marriages — D7 (Saptamsha)

The Rule

1. Find the sign that shows the relationship in D7: 7th house for the first, then 8th from it (ended) or 6th from it (added).
2. The first child of that relationship is the 11th from that sign — the fruit of the relationship. The 5th house is the first child only because it is the 11th from the 7th.
3. Count the 11th forward if that sign is odd, backward if it is even. It is the oddity of the sign showing the marriage that decides, not of the lagna. "That is the tricky part."
4. Later children: every 3rd from there (younger sibling), again forward or backward by the same rule.

• An affair while the first wife is alive and living with the native is the 6th from the 7th, the 12th house. A child from that affair is the 11th from the 12th.
• The lord of the sign showing the marriage is that partner's own intelligence applied to childbirth, as the D7 lagna lord is the native's.

Worked Example (Hypothetical) — Cancer Lagna in D7

• 1st wife = 7th = Capricorn. Even, so count backward: 1st child = Pisces. Suppose Jupiter is with Rahu in Aries, the 2nd from Pisces: no children from the first wife.
• That marriage ends. 2nd wife = 8th from Capricorn = Leo. The Sun shows her part in it. Leo is odd: 1st child = Gemini. Suppose Mercury is in Cancer with Ketu, the 2nd from Gemini: that fails too.
• He now takes a third wife while the second is still his wife: 6th from Leo = Capricorn again. "If the first wife could not get any children, the third wife is unlikely to get any children", because the same sign shows both.
• If instead he divorced the second: 3rd wife = 8th from Leo = Pisces. Even, so backward: 1st child = Taurus, read from Venus. A different sign and lord, so a different result is possible.

Ketu Cutting the Line

• When Ketu ends the count, it ends the children of that relationship, not children altogether. A new relationship starts a fresh count from its own sign, and Ketu will cut that one at a different place.

Every Conception Counts

"Any relationship, whether it resulted in marriage or not, will show up in the chart. Any child, whether he or she survived or not, the child will show up in the chart. That is the lesson you have to remember."

• "That is what makes it complicated. If you only count real marriages and real children, it's easy." It is the power of the method and its liability: wrong private facts give a wrong reading.

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Natural Abortion vs Induced Abortion

Asking

• A student asks how to know if there was an abortion before the first child.
• If the sign of the supposed first child is badly afflicted and the next sign fits the living child better (a stubborn child and Mars in that sign's lagna), suspect a lost pregnancy and ask.
• "In the beginning I used to be shy to ask these things." Several times the person confirmed at once; some said no and came back later, after asking the wife, to say he was right.
• "Things that are not very pleasant to remember, people tend to forget."
• If the chart and the person's account cannot be reconciled, do not force it by shifting the lagna. "Say, 'I don't know what's going on, I will just leave this chart.' That's a better thing to do than throw a stone in the dark."
• "Don't hesitate to ask when you are sure." The confidence comes with experience.

A Case

• A man in the middle of a divorce brought the chart of the woman he meant to marry, to learn whether they would have children. He said she had two children.
• PVNR saw three: child, abortion, child. He needed that confirmed to trust her D7 lagna.
• She first denied it, then said the abortion came before the two children. PVNR did not accept that. Asked again, she recalled that it was between them.
• What made him sure: the man had already said that he and she had conceived and aborted. That is the second relationship, so it is counted from the 2nd house — the 12th or 4th — and it fitted. "That was a clincher for me."
• That abortion is the first child of the second relationship. If she has another child with him, it is counted on from there, not from the 5th house.

Natural or Induced, and Who Decided

• A student suggests Rahu for artificial means. PVNR: Mars can show a hemorrhagic, natural abortion.
• The lagna lord of D7 is the native's own intelligence applied to childbirth. If the lagna lord and Rahu are both involved with the child's sign — by placement in a māraka sthāna from it, by argalā, by aspect — suspect it was done intentionally. "You can't say with 100% certainty."
• If the lagna lord is not involved, but Rahu and the lord of the sign showing that relationship (7th lord, or 2nd lord for a second relationship) are: the other partner did not want the child.
• Both involved: both wanted it. Often it is one.
• Example from the class notes: the D7 lagna lord in the 6th house — the māraka sthāna (2nd) from the 5th, the first child — and influenced by Rahu: the native did not want the first child born. The 7th lord of D7 in a māraka sthāna from the child's sign: the wife was involved in the abortion.

"I never really cared about it. As long as I know that this pregnancy is not surviving, it doesn't matter to me whether they decided or somebody else decided."

• It is too private, people may mislead you, and it adds little. What matters is whether there was an abortion at all: if one D7 lagna shows it for that child and the neighbouring lagna does not, the lagna is fixed.
• The loss need not be Rahu or Ketu sitting in the child's sign. It can be the lord of that sign with Rahu, or in the 2nd from it.

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Ketu in 8th House

A student whose 10th lord is with Ketu asks about Ketu in the 8th.

• "There is nothing all good or bad."
• Long life.
• Health problems that are tough to diagnose — not a cold, but "undiagnosable weird problems". Ketu is a bad planet for all health matters.
• Occult abilities, intuition; interest in occult subjects.
• Tradition calls it bad. On the bad side, health may not be perfect. On the good side, occult benefits.
• This holds natally and in transit. Ketu transiting the 8th from the natal rāśi can also give a lot of spiritual experiences.
• Ketu shows explosions.

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Eyes and Vision — House Correspondences

Hearing

A student asks about someone who can neither speak nor hear.

• 3rd house = the physical ears — big ears, small ears.
• 11th house = the 9th from the 3rd = the dharma of the ear = hearing.
• The 3rd and 11th should be strong and in harmony, with positive links between them. "Especially the 11th is the most important."
• Negative links, or an 11th "very hammered by malefics", give hearing problems.

Sight

"If the 2nd house is afflicted, there can be eye problems, but may not be vision. But if the 10th house is afflicted, there will be vision problems."

• Telling left from right is "more difficult"; the class stays with vision in general.
• Do not judge from the lord's nature. A student reasons that a Mars-ruled 10th means weak eyes. "That's not a logical thing to do." Look for affliction to the house or its lord.

"If you are wearing glasses, especially very high-power glasses, you must have an affliction to the 10th house or 10th lord."

• The daśās running when the sight went must show those links.
• Vision suffers when malefics sit in the 10th, aspect the 10th, or the 10th lord is afflicted. Hearing suffers the same way through the 11th house and the 11th lord.

Two Cases from the Room

• PVNR's own chart — Virgo lagna near 14°, so the 10th is Gemini with its significant point near 14°. Saturn in the 16th degree of Aries throws his 3rd-house aspect on it, very close. Jupiter aspects too, but Saturn is closer. His glasses grew strong and stayed there. The class notes add that the eye problems developed in his Saturn daśā.
• A student — 10th house Aries; no planet there, Saturn aspecting; 10th lord Mars afflicted by Ketu.

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Rahu's Aspects (Graha Drishti)

"Rahu aspects the 5th, 7th and 9th house. Like Jupiter."

• He adds the 2nd house to Rahu's aspects: "Because he has his eyes on resources. He always worries about what are my resources for all the great things that I have to do."
• Use in the example chart: Rahu in Aries throws the 9th-house aspect on Sagittarius.

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